Letter 16 — Questions from a Friend
Letters To A Mormon Elder
by James R. White
Friday, August 3
Dear Steve,
Your letter was a welcome sight, and your questions and comments were a great encouragement to me. I appreciate your honesty and the fact that you are really examining the Scriptures and seeking to know what they really teach. I, too, have enjoyed our correspondence and would be glad to meet with you a week from Tuesday. Till then, I will do as you ask and provide you with brief (yes, I know what the word means, I just don’t utilize it much in my writing!) replies to your questions on the passages you listed.
First, you asked about Philippians 2:12 which reads,
Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
Note that Paul instructs the believers to work out their salvation, not work for their salvation. You can’t “work out” something that you don’t already have. So Paul is not asserting that the believers are to do works to gain their salvation, but they are to work out their salvation with fear and trembling. But don’t stop at verse 12! Read on to the next:
For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
So who is really doing the work, Steve? As we’ve seen, everything in the Christian life is dependent upon God. Even when we do good works, when we “work out” our salvation, we are utterly dependent upon God’s power, God’s Spirit! I like to say that we are “saved by grace, and we are kept by grace!” The Christian life starts by God’s grace, continues by God’s grace, and will be completed by God’s grace. That is the message of Scripture.
The next passage you asked about was Matthew 7:22. Let’s pick up the context by quoting verses 21 and 23 as well:
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, l never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
I believe very much in what the Lord Jesus says here. He speaks of those many, many people who have been deceived into thinking that their religious activities are evidence of their personal relationship with Jesus Christ. People of many religions will be standing there — I believe that nearly every LDS person will be in that group, because the Mormon Church teaches a false Jesus, so that there is no personal relationship there between the true Christ and the Mormon. But they won’t be alone — there will be people from every Christian denomination who substituted religiosity for relationship. Did you hear what Jesus said to them? He didn’t tell them that they hadn’t undergone this ceremony or that ordinance — He told them that “I never knew you.” That is the real test. Do you know Christ? I am reminded of the infamous “fireside” talk given by Bruce R. McConkie back on March 2, 1982. A book had been circulating at BYU that spoke about having a “personal relationship” with Jesus Christ. McConkie came to BYU to “correct” this kind of thinking. Here is some of what he said:
I shall express the views of the Brethren, of the prophets and apostles of old, and of all those who understand the scriptures and are in tune with the Holy Spirit. . .
Now, it is not secret that many false and vain and foolish things are being taught in the sectarian world and even among us about our need to gain a special relationship with the Lord Jesus. I shall summarize the true doctrine in this field and invite erring teachers and beguiled students to repent and believe the accepted gospel verities as l shall set them forth.
Christ worked out his own salvation by worshipping the Father. Note it please, the Lord Jesus worked out his own salvation while in this mortal probation by going from grace to grace, until, having overcome the world and being raised in immortal glory, he became like the Father in the full, complete, and eternal sense.
Our relationship with the Father is supreme, paramount, and preeminent over all others. He is the God we worship. It is his gospel that saves and exalts. He ordained and established the plan of salvation. He is the one who was once as we are now. The life he lives is eternal life, and if we are to gain this greatest of all the gifts of God, it will be because we become like him.
Our relationship with the Son is one of brother and sister in the pre-mortal life and one of being led to the Father by him while in this mortal sphere. He is the Lord Jehovah who championed our cause before the foundations of the earth were laid.
There are yet others who have an extensive zeal which causes them to go beyond the mark. Their desire for excellence is inordinate. In an effort to be truer than true they devote themselves to gaining a special, personal relationship with Christ that is both improper and perilous.
I say perilous because this course, particularly in the lives of some who are spiritually immature, is a gospel hobby which creates an unwholesome holier-than-thou attitude. In other instances it leads to despondency because the seeker after perfection knows he is not living the way that he supposes he should.
Another peril is that those so involved often begin to pray directly to Christ because of some special friendship they feel has been developed. In this connection a current and unwise book, which advocates gaining a special relationship with Jesus, contains this sentence quote: “Because the Savior is our mediator, our prayers go through Christ to the Father, and the Father answers our prayers through his Son.” Unquote.
This is plain sectarian nonsense. Our prayers are addressed to the Father, and to him only. They do not go through Christ, or the Blessed Virgin, or St. Genevieve or along the beads of a rosary. . .
Now I know that some may be offended at the counsel that they should not strive for a special and personal relationship with Christ. It will seem to them as though I am speaking out against mother love, or Americanism, or the little red school house. But I am not. There is a fine line here over which true worshippers will not step.
McConkie’s confusion comes from his polytheism, as we have seen. But it seems quite clear that unless God was in some way merciful to McConkie prior to his death, he will be one of those standing there saying, “Lord, Lord, did I not . . . and Christ will answer, I never knew you.” And those words will echo throughout eternity in light of his telling people not to seek a personal relationship with Christ.
Then you asked about the LDS belief in three “heavens” (celestial, terrestrial, and telestial) that was based upon Paul’s words in 1 Corinthians 15:40-41:
There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.
The Mormon church has latched on to the terms celestial and terrestrial in its teaching of various levels of heaven. The third word, telestial, is not even an English word, but was created by the imagination of Joseph Smith by combining the first two letters of terrestrial with the last seven letters of celestial.
No Bible text can be understood outside of the context in which it is found. Such is also the case here. 1 Corinthians IS is known as the “resurrection chapter.” Paul is here discussing the topic of the resurrection of believers. Notice the two questions he has addressed in this chapter so far; verse 12 addresses those who did not believe in resurrection, and verse 35 asks the question, “With what kind of body do they come?” Paul is still answering this question in verses 40 and 41. What, then, is Paul’s point?
Paul is here discussing the connection between our physical body and the spiritual body we will have at the resurrection. He maintains that there is definitely a connection between the two, but the future, glorified body will far transcend our current physical body in so many ways. To make his point, he brings in a number of illustrations. One is the seed and the plant (vs. 36-38), another that of the flesh of the animal kingdom (v. 39). When we come to the verses under discussion here, we see that he is continuing with the same train of thought — here comparing the glory of heavenly bodies with the glory of earthly bodies. This verse simply continues his comparison — there is no reason to believe that all of a sudden he decides to talk about different levels of heaven! The very next verse substantiates this quite well:
So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption [a perishable body]; it is raised in incorruption [an imperishable body]: It is sown in dishonor; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body and there is a spiritual body. (1 Corinthians 15:42-44)
Notice the continued parallelism — perishable, imperishable; dishonor, glory. I would also like to point out with reference to the terms celestial and terrestrial that the same Greek terms are used in John 3:12, and are there translated by the King James Version as heavenly and earthly. Since it is obvious that Paul is here describing the nature of the resurrection body, and not different levels of heaven, what about the passage at 2 Corinthians 12:2? This passage reads,
I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven.
Then, in verse 4, Paul identifies this “third heaven” as “Paradise.” What is the third heaven?
The Bible does describe three heavens. The first heaven is that of the sky above us — the atmosphere of the earth. The second heaven is the abode of the stars and earth — “space” as we know it. The third heaven, however, was always the abode of God himself, what we would describe simply as “heaven.” This was a common conception in Paul’s time, and was a convenient way of describing things. Hence, Paul was caught up into the presence of God, into the “third heaven.”
Next you asked my understanding of John 3:5-6 with reference to the necessity of baptism. The passage reads,
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, l say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
The vast majority of Mormons (and a number of other religious groups) interpret the phrase “to be born of water” to mean baptism by immersion. I have asked many Mormons if they knew of a single other place in the Bible where baptism is described in this way. There is no answer to the question, because there are no such other places. What does it mean to be born of water? Some feel that Jesus is referring to natural birth, picking up Nicodemus’ words in verse 4 and carrying this through to verse 6. But I personally feel that Jesus is using the same kind of terminology that is found in Titus 3:5 (“he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Spirit”) and that is found in the book of Ezekiel, a book that John was obviously very familiar with. Note this passage from Ezekiel 36:25-27:
Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
Sound familiar? I believe this is what John is referring to, and, if we take the Bible as a whole, including all of what the Lord Jesus and the Apostle Paul taught about how one is forgiven and how one is made right with God, it is obvious that a human action of undergoing baptism cannot possibly be something that is foundational to salvation, for this would leave God utterly dependent upon the actions of men. Instead, baptism is an action of an obedient believer, a person who is picturing his death, burial and resurrection with Christ, not a person who is seeking after God’s grace through a system of ordinances and works.
Speaking of baptism, you asked my opinion of 1 Corinthians 15:29: “Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?” Here it is in a nutshell: The Christian church has never practiced baptism for the dead in the sense that the LDS Church wants us to believe. They are forced to take 1 Corinthians 15:29 out of its context and force their own peculiar meaning on it. First, the Bible does not teach that baptism saves anyone (even 1 Peter 3:21, upon close examination, does not do so), hence it certainly would not be needed to “redeem the dead” as Mormons put it. 1 Corinthians 15:29 is found in the “resurrection chapter.” The needed clue to its meaning is found in the language in which it was originally written, that being Greek. The word “for” is the Greek term huper. It refers to the taking of someone’s place, or to substitution. Baptism “for” the dead is not baptism of a living person in behalf of or for the benefit of a dead person, but rather the immersion of a living person in the place of or into the former position of a now deceased person. It is the baptism of a new convert who takes the place in the church of one who has died. The baptism of a young child, for example, the day after an elderly saint of the Lord has passed away could be viewed as the younger person coming to “fill” the position of the person who has gone home to be with the Lord. This vein of thinking is carried on in the context when Paul says in the next verse, “And why stand we in jeopardy every hour?” Being a Christian in those days was a dangerous business. Paul’s whole point in the entire passage has to do with the fact that if the dead are not raised (v. 12) there is absolutely no point in bringing new converts into this dangerous position through baptism when there is no future life to promise them, no reward in the future for their faithfulness. Why not just let everyone die off without filling their positions in the church, since, if there is no resurrection, “we are of all men most to be pitied” (v. 19). Belief in baptizing the living to somehow help in saving the dead demonstrates a complete misunderstanding of the New Testament teaching concerning the nature, extent, and purpose of salvation.
Well, I’m to your last question and have managed to actually stay “brief!” Not bad, huh? Well, your question centers around Acts 3: 19-21. Here is what Luke wrote:
Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may he blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; and he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
This raises the entire LDS belief that the church went into a state of apostasy after the death of the last apostles, only to be re-established by Joseph Smith in 1830. The phrase “the times of restitution of all things” in Acts 3:21 is interpreted to refer to this restitution of the Church. In fact, as I recall, Steve, this verse is used on that little “17 Points of the True Church” card that you gave me when we first met. An examination of the text chosen to represent this claim will show just how weak this argument is. Acts chapter 3 is not in any way discussing the Church. This is seen in two ways. First, verse 21 says that the “restitution of all things” was “spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.” As Paul points out in Colossians 1:25-27, the mystery of the church was not made known to the past ages and generations (see also l Peter 1:10-12), hence this certainly is not talking about the Church. Second, the prophets spoke of the restoration of Israel to its own land, and the restoration of the theocracy under David’s Son. This is what Peter is discussing in Acts 3. Besides all of this, I must ask when it was that Christ returned, as verse 19 says this would happen at the “restitution of all things.”
What is without question is that the Lord Jesus taught that the gates of hades (the KJV says hell, but hades and hell are not the same thing, so a better translation would be “hades”) would not prevail against His Church (Matthew 16:18). If the Church ceased to exist for 1700 years, then Jesus spoke an untruth. And Paul, too, taught that the Church would not pass away:
Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us, unto him he glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen. (Ephesians 3:20-21)
God is to be glorified in the Church by Christ Jesus for how long? For a few years before a gap of 1700 years? No, throughout all ages. To teach that the Church would cease to exist for nearly two millennia is to teach something that is contradictory to the Word of God.
Well, I actually kept this short. Surprised? I am looking forward to getting together with you next week. Please give me a call if anything comes up that would require us to reschedule. Thanks again for writing, and God bless.
In Christ,
James
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